Wednesday, September 16, 2009

Does anyone want to fight Roberto????

I wish I had a digital camera because I would take pictures of my friends, family, and the activities that I go to. Maybe, I should get one for Christmas. I want to spend my birthday money, if I even get it, on clothes. I want a new gi for Christmas too. I would like a black one because having a white one getting really annoying. Some of the guys have mat burns, so they get blood on my gi. I hate washing blood out of clothes because I do it enough already.

Today was really wonderful. I worked with Steve, Cory's brother, on Upa. I only let him do it on one side. I only did it on one side too. Then, we worked on the knee sweep. This time we scoot out to put one foot on the knee and the other towards the armpit. The leg has to swing forward towards the arm pit while pushing the knee back. It's pretty effective.

Anyways, I talked to Cory, Steve, and Roberto more about karate. I was watching some kids do some Taekwondo forms. They look really awful because they punch before they get into their stance. I mentioned that to Roberto. He said that it doesn't matter because they are just kids and forms aren't useful in fighting anyways. Then, he started making fun with of my karate. He teased me because he put one hand in chamber and the other hand in a jab. Cory and Steve said that they'd fight anyone who fought with their hands in chamber. UGG! They don't know my school. We are normal fighters, it's just we didn't practice that much. Then Cory said that open hand techniques don't work!! I really question him on that one because I prefer open hand to always having a closed fist. I generate more power with my palm heel strikes than a regular punch. I'm more comfortable with the strikes because I don't have to worry about tearing any skin on my knuckles.

Ack!!! What's really getting me is that Roberto said that he'd be willing to fight Sensei Villa anytime. He's really confident that he'd win because of his BJJ training. He said that he'd fight him without any gear on, bare knuckled. Knowing Roberto, he wouldn't strike. Instead he'd take Sensei down and then choke him. He said that he'd be willing fly Sensei here and back for free. He just wants to be able to video tape it and put on his web page. Roberto said that Sensei will say "no" even though he won't have to pay anything just to get here and back. He said they always say no because they know that they'll lose to anyone who does BJJ. I said some people at my old dojo knows some ground work. Roberto said that everyone says that.

I know that Sensei is a very good karateka. I've seen him move so many times. It's just so natural to him. He has such excellent control over his body. I've seen him spar once and twice. It was very impressive. I'm just trying to think who would win if Roberto and Sensei fought. Sensei has so many years of experience compared to Roberto. One would think that Roberto is being really cocky thinking that he could be any other martial artist. I don't know though from all the things that I've seen. Again, we don't spar that much in karate. That makes a big difference whether one could fight someone. I look at Levi too because he has so much power in his punches too. I'm still assuming that Levi is a better ground fighter than Sensei too. I think that he's the best fighter out of all of the karateka in that dojo. I know that Paul isn't a fighter. He told me once that he'd much rather do kata than spar. I miss him. He's such a cool guy.

I was thinking that if Sensei says no and doesn't want to send anyone out. Maybe David might be willing to fight Roberto. I know that he's has so much knowledge of kata and fighting in general from reading his blog. I'm just hope someone will come over here to prove Roberto wrong. However, I'm on the fence on this one because I have tons of respect for Sensei, Roberto, Levi, and David. I know that all of them has so much knowledge in their chosen art. Cory said that he'd even be willing to fight Sensei. I was thinking why would anyone come from Spokane to fight Roberto. Maybe, they'd do it for me so I can know who's right or wrong. I know that Roberto is serious about this too.


ZenHG said...

Is it a question of style, or person?
What does it prove in the long run? That Roberto is either right or wrong? It seems more like Roberto has something to prove to himself.
I've seen the guy fight in videos, he is very skilled at what he does, but to have such a superficial grasp of things, when will he move beyond all that?

I have nothing to prove, take it or leave it however you like.
Villa Sensei has paid his dues in the realm of fighting as well, so what does he have to prove to anyone?
You forget that Villa Sensei was a Judo player since he was five and specialized in Ne Waza (ground fighting).
I have seen him and went against him in Ne Waza, he is, by far, way better than Livi.

Does that mean he would win? I don't know.
I know that on the ground I do not stand a chance against Roberto, who obviously specializes in ground work, so I would most certainly lose once it came to the ground.

Perhaps it would be worth while if it were an honest exchange instead of a one-sided statement meant to humiliate.
In either case, if myself or Villa Sensei were to answer the challenge and won, why would we want to broadcast Roberto losing across the internet? What does that prove?
If we lost, it is obvious why Roberto would want to broadcast it, but, again, what does that prove?

I'm not above coming down and having an honest exchange; I know chances of losing are high, but chances to gain understanding are high as well, if that were the motive of your Teacher; that is not his motive however.
I know exactly how he would respond to this too; he would say I am afraid of losing, that I am afraid of having my face plastered all over the internet and humiliated, as that is what is intended.

He says that Villa Sensei will say 'no,' and I know Villa Sensei well enough to know that he doesn't put much stalk in such things, so he will most certainly say 'no,' but I would advise you to contact Villa Sensei directly for his reasons rather than accepting hear-say.

My reasons are this, I am a Budoka, I seek training wherever it is offered when I have the time to accept it between family, working, teaching, and training.
If there is a challenge issued I expect it to be a mutual exchange, a sharing of ideas, not just lip service.
There is nothing I have to prove to anyone, not even myself; if you are disappointed then that is your own problem and you will have to work it out with yourself and figure out which way to go.

I have answered challenges in the past, I've won some and I've lost some.
I learn more from the matches I've lost and victories are brief at best.
What lasting satisfaction is there in this? What is the point? What does it prove?

Perhaps understanding will come with time.

Lizzie said...

Thanks David. It's like Roberto doesn't have any respect for any other martial arts except BJJ and maybe Aikido. He's very respectful to everyone who does BJJ. So, it's like this paradox that I'm seeing.

That's what I was feeling last night. Why would anyone from Spokane come and fight Roberto?? No one will have any gain from that. Probably, they'd think it would be a waste of time and energy.

I totally agree what you said. It's better to have an honest exchange where we can learn from each other. If we can be open minded, we can teach each other a few things. I like that far better than seeing if who would win or not. I don't want to humiliate anyone for that matter. It's better to share ideas and help each other in the martial art world instead of trying to see if one is better than the other.

I just want Roberto to have a greater respect and understanding of Goju-Ryu. It might not be a fighting style, but we have lots of knowledge of body movement and how things work. Kata teaches one how to move one's body in a powerful and fluid motion. It teaches one how to actually control one's body and not flop around all the time. It teaches one how to have good stances and how to punch and kick properly.

It seems like that with Roberto, it's all about fighting and sparring. One can tell how good one is by fighting another person and see who wins. Maybe, it doesn't matter who wins or loses. Everyone trains for a different purpose.

ZenHG said...

I can see some merit in wanting to continually grow by testing yourself in such a way.
Again, not everyone is the same, that is very true, but ultimately one should never stop learning and growing.
Once they become stuck, as Roberto has, then they become very limited in their outlook and way of thinking.
What value is there in a teaching that is so narrow it leaves no room for growth or progress in a broader sense?

Has Roberto ever experienced anything to any depth beyond Aikido and BJJ?
These seem more like personal bias rather than personal experience. I have trained Aikido for many years in conjunction with Karate and Jujitsu, none of them are the ultimate, they cannot be, because they are just names, differentiations, abstractions. They are not real.

If a person in BJJ defeats a person in Karate, does that mean that BJJ is better than Karate? They have only defeated one person! That person cannot be an example of ALL Karate, nor can the BJJ Player be an example for ALL BJJ!
That is like saying one bad apple means the whole tree is rotten! Over one apple all those apples that were good are tossed into the trash!

If you win against a Karateka, that means that you understand your own training, not that BJJ is the best art.
If the Karateka beats you, that means that they understand THEIR training, not that Karate is the best art.

Ultimately you will win some and you will lose some, you learn from those losses and adapt accordingly; thus, once you adapt, you make a change within yourself, does that mean you are no longer practicing BJJ or Karate?
It doesn't matter, they are just names.

I'm sure Roberto is a great technician and strategist, but it does not sound like he has much understanding beyond that.
Such trivial statements and childish games only show his true character.
I wonder if he has ever really experienced Karate or ever even fought a challenge match?
Maybe he should challenge Bas Rutten and tell him Karate sucks! Bas Rutten is a really big guy that has taken Kyokushin Karate to the UFC.
Perhaps he should challenge Lyoto Machida and make fun of Karate in front of him! He is an undefeated MMA Fighter in the UFC who practices Shotokan Karate! JKA Style!

Ultimately I don't think these people would care much for that. They have nothing to prove to the likes of Roberto, someone they probably have never heard of.
Perhaps this is Roberto's motive? That he is obscure and seeks to make a name for himself? In that case what he is showing is self-indulgance, pride, and ultimately ignorance.

He lacks any true depth to his understanding beyond physical applications and ultimately it is probably doubtful that he has fought any challenges in the past. I don't know, I cannot say, but his reaction would be a tell-tale sign.

Lizzie said...

What do you mean challenges??? I know he started fighting other people when he was 16 years old. He said that everyone is easy to beat except fellow BJJ practitioners. It sounds like that everyone he met and fought who has studied any other martial art was a push over.

I don't know when or how long he studied Akido. He's a black belt in Taekwondo too. That's why he said that forms aren't very good. All I've seen is that he's a very, very good BJJ practitioner.

I was thinking that in Goju-Ryu, we weren't training to become fighters. Of course, we had a fight class two times a week. We sparred at the end of class, but that wasn't enough for me to learn how to apply my techniques. Sensei didn't really emphasize sparring as part of the curriculum. I know that sparring is part of the testing, but I don't think we were graded on it.

Right now, I'm becoming and training as a fighter because of him. I think it's pretty cool. What he teaches me works. It just takes tons of practice to get them to work. Roberto's goal is to make us into really good fighters so we can do well at tournaments. When we start doing well, he'll gain a reputation and more people will start coming to his school. I don't think that Roberto or Cory are ignorant. I think that they are just coming from a different point of view.

Roberto said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ZenHG said...

By challenges I mean that when someone issues a challenge.
Traditionally a person will go to the Dojo of another to test their skill, issuing a formal challenge that is usually answered by the most senior student.
In Okinawan tradition this was called Kakidameshi and could happen at any time, even while walking down the street.
Many people died in the older style challenge matches.

I think being a fighter is okay, but without a higher code or moral to guide then a fighter is just a fighter.
Watch the movie 'Red Belt' and you will see what I mean, truly fantastic movie.
There is a difference between a Budoka and someone whom is just a fighter.

IOGKF is only an indicator of IOGKF Karate and how they train, it is not an indicator of all Goju Ryu or all Karate.
Do you see what I mean? There are many different approaches, some train to be effective, some do not.

To make a blanket statement as Roberto has is not indicative of someone whom has had the opportunity to really train in effective Karate.
Tae Kwon Do is a sport, I took Tae Kwon Do too, I have a black belt in it, and if it were my only exposure to striking arts then I would feel very much the same way as Roberto does.
It is not a good point of reference, though even there, there are some styles of Tae Kwon Do that are extremely effective.

So blanket statements really do not work, you have to judge it on an individual level.
Styles are not real and therefor are not a true vantage point.

ZenHG said...

I hope you were able to get my private email to you Scoca Sensei.

I am honestly not sure what to make of this.
Lizzie, how long have you been training in Karate? I do not believe you have been training that long.
Why do you feel they are incorrect in what they are doing that warrants you to go correct his younger students?

When I was a guest in Chinen Sensei's Dojo I did not question or attempt to make corrections, I attempted to understand.
Just the same, when I was teaching at Villa Sensei's Dojo I had to first understand what it was I was Teaching.

Even now, being on my own with no affiliation, I still strive to understand what I do on a deeper level.
After eighteen years, I still feel I do not understand enough and there is still much to learn.

If I see someone that might need a little help on how they are generating power, maybe I will offer it to them, but not without asking the teacher first, or thinking about how I want to approach it in a way that is not offensive.

Skill in the Martial Arts is not just about fighting, it is about skillful actions in every aspect of life, especially manners and respect.

That being said, I think the situation could have been approached in a manner more befitting a Teacher by Roberto and his student, rather than making fun of you, they could have directly talked to you about this.

Lizzie said...

I'm sorry. I didn't go up to the girls and started to correct them. Now I see what Roberto is trying to say, I shouldn't have said anything because my technique is bad too. I was being open about what I was taught in karate and how we did kata. I thought that the forms in Taekwondo look similar to kata. I thought that the basics where the same.

I haven't been in karate for that long. I started karate in the winter of 2006, when I was 19 years old. That's almost four years ago. However, this past year, I haven't been doing much with karate because of the mini-mission. Plus, I was spent my money on going to a chiropractor instead of the dojo. Before that, I was busy with church, institute, and school. That's why I haven't progressed much in karate.

David and Roberto are masters compared to me. I'm such a beginner compared to you because of the amount of years you've been training and the experience you've acquired.

ZenHG said...

I'm no master. ;)